November Workstations
Lots that's new this month. Since the last workstations update, I've written about laptops, updated the explanation of workstation methodology and discussed my issues with GPU rendering technology.
If you're not familiar with my workstation recommendations, please read my updated explanation of methodology and explanation of computer parts. Even if you buy from a vendor like Dell, HP or Boxx, knowing about these issues will help you make an informed decision.
ATI's New GPUs
In the last couple of weeks, ATI began the Radeon 6000 series rollout with the Radeon HD 6850 and Radeon HD 6870. These cards are fantastic, but a bit misunderstood. The problem is, ATI's making some minor modifications to its naming scheme, so while you'd expect the 6850 to replace the 5850 and the 6870 to replace the 5870, the new cards are actually slower than the old ones with the similar names. The 6850 is actually an alternative to the 5830, and the 6870 should be considered a replacement for the 5850. What the new cards give you over their older (actual) counterparts is lower price, lower power consumption and heat production due to a simplified architecture, and a more efficient altialiaser. If you want a reasonable consumer level card for a budget system or for gaming, these cards rate a very strong buy.
The side effect of all this is that many other models have come down in price, notably the Geforce GTX 460 and GTX 470.
The Workstations
I'm going to try to write a bit less this time, since a lot of the usual spiel is in the update explanation of methodology.
Non-3D Workstations
The Intern
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
With a three-core AMD CPU, 4GB of RAM, a Radeon card with DirectX 11 and 1GB, and 64-bit Windows 7, this build will fit the needs of both your intern, your bookkeeper and your senior partner who doesn't use CAD. You can build something cheaper, but I don't recommend it.
The Photoshopper
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
This is a quiet, power efficient box that meets the needs of photographers, graphic designers and marketing staff.
The two RE3 (Raid Edition) hard drives have improved life expectancy over normal hard drives, necessary for reliable use in a RAID 0, which is the goal here. Use RAID to improve read/write speed on those large PSD files. Even with the RE3 drive, I would be remiss not to say that you really do need an external backup system. In an office environment, this can be as simple as a nightly backup of project files to the server.
Note the use of an i5 instead of an i7. Why? The i5-680 is a dual core with most of the same architecture as the i7, and a base clock of 3.6GHz that goes over 3.8GHz with Turbo Boost! How else are you going to get that without overclocking? (If you do overclock, by all means go to the i7-875k, upgrade the memory to DDR3-2000 and go nuts.) Don't worry, there's no shame in the i5 - I own two myself - and two cores is all you need for this sort of work. Creative Suite apps don't make efficient use of many cores or of Hyperthreading.
Whatever else you do, an X-Rite Eye-One Display 2 is indispensable, and a Wacom Intuos4 Tablet is a very good idea. Consider an IPS display from the Displays section below.
3D Workstations
The Budget
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
An interesting thing happened this month. The price on the AMD 1090T CPU went through the floor. I can't explain why this happened, but as of this writing Newegg is selling for less than the 1075T, which is slower. In these situations, I ask myself, what would Jeremy Clarkson do? At $230 you can't not use this CPU in this class of machine. So, for the time being anyway, the Budget gets the same CPU as the Midrange.
Choice of video card is more difficult. The Radeon 5750, Radeon 5770 and Geforce 450 are all viable options, and pretty close in price. I've gone with the Radeon 5770 this month because it's a bit quicker than than the others, though the Geforce is a bit cheaper and uses a bit less power, so you could really go either way and not be making a bad decision.
The Midrange (Regular Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
The Midrange features AMD's higher end 3.2GHz six-core CPU. (If you're an overclocker, this CPU has its multiplier unlocked, but you'll want faster RAM to take advantage of it.) The motherboard is a solid Asus choice, using AMD's best chipset, that can take two video cards at full speed as well as the latest peripherals (USB 3.0 and SATA3 6.0GB/s).
Since the regular edition of the Midrange doesn't need CUDA, the video card is a no brainer. For this money, for a video card to drive your 3D viewports and AutoCAD or Revit without doubling as a space heater for your office, the v5800 is the best thing. By not caring about CUDA, you get a lot of advantages in the viewport department. Serious Cinema4D users should also opt for this configuration, as the only way to make Cinebench run significantly faster is to step up to the much more expensive FirePro v8800.
There's a new hard drive in here, a Seagate "hybrid" drive which adds 4GB of flash memory storage to a normal 500GB hard drive. This will give you an improvement in booting and accessing your most used software. I didn't want to blow the budget here, but for speed, one thing you can do is substitute the hard drives used in the Photoshop workstation and make them a RAID 0, or replace the Seagate drive with one of the SSDs used in the Maxer or High End systems. The WD Green drive adds substantial storage with modest power, noise and heat numbers, and hard drives with conservative specs are generally more reliable than ones that run faster and hotter.
The High-End (Regular Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
Normally I recommend the FirePro v7800 in this class. Unfortunately that's out of stock for a while at Newegg, so this month I've included the Quadro 4000, which is more expensive and faster at some tasks - but you wouldn't be making a mistake if you got a v7800 from another source.
CPUs are a bit more constrained at this level. There's no real alternative to a 6-core i7, and there are only two of those. I'm sticking with the i7-980X for its speed advantage over the 970, which makes it a slightly better value in terms of rendering speed per overall system price, and the overclocking advantage of its unlocked multiplier, for those who are into that kind of thing.
Install your OS and software on the SSD and use the 1TB drive for your working files. For a bit more speed, order two of the 1TB drives and put them in a RAID 0. (Remember, RE drives are "RAID Edition" for a reason.)
The Maxer
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
Coming in just shy of the $8,000 target, this beast features dual 3.33GHz six-core CPUs, allowing it to render twice as quickly as the High End system. The chassis and motherboard are designed to go together, and for use with X5600 series CPUs.
As for video cards, this was a tough one. I'm sticking with the FirePro v8800 mainly because I don't see a compelling reason to switch and it's a better value than the Quadro 5000, but a FirePro v7800 2GB, Quadro 4000 2GB or Quadro 5000 2.5GB would be valid choices, depending on needs.
Oh, one more thing. These Xeons use triple-channel memory and each CPU has its own memory controller. When using two of these CPUs, there are six memory channels, so the RAM used must be matched DIMMs in multiples of six. This configuration uses a set of 12 DIMMs.
If this box can't handle your scene, you're doing something wrong. Estimated Cinebench rendering score: 17.
3D Workstations for CUDA Users
The Midrange (CUDA Rendering Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
In many respects this machine is similar to the regular Midrange. In fact, if you're not using Vray RT-GPU, iray or another CUDA rendering packae, this build is worse than the one above because the FirePro video card is better for driving viewports in 3D apps. But with this version, what you get is:
-A motherboard that supports up to three video cards
-Dual Geforce GTX 460 cards with 2GB RAM onboard
-More power!
The 2GB GTX 460 is a great option for running software like this. It's the most memory you can put on a card that's not a Quadro, at only $260 each. A single Quadro 4000 card would cost $780 and while it would likely outperform this configuration in viewport performance, it would not run a CUDA renderer nearly as well.
If you want even more power, two GTX 470 or GTX 480 cards can be used with this configuration; however, a 1000 watt power supply would be highly recommended. Three GTX 480 cards, the configuration Chaosgroup used in their demo? The cost/benefit is against you, but you can do it; a 1200 watt power supply is needed. The drawback is neither the 470 nor the 480 are available with 2GB.
The High-End (CUDA Rendering Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
Similar to Midrange version for CUDA rendering, this config is worse than the regular High-End if you don't use a CUDA rendering solution.
I seriously considered including four GTX 460 cards in this system, but in the end the principle that it's best to put the same amount of power in fewer CPUs translates well to GPUs and two GTX480's 580's wins out. Still, with this MB you can do it, and part of the reason I've included such a high end MB is future-proofing; you can add a third GTX 480 580 card, or a fourth (you might need a second power supply, which is a tricky thing to do) or at some later date upgrade to multiple cards of some hypothetical future type. A 1500 watt power supply and a motherboard that can fit four video cards ensure that your GPU selection will not be held back.
[Edit: The next update will be mid-month, but now that the market for GTX 580's has simmered down slightly I've included them instead of the 480's.]
Render Nodes
The Render Node
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
If you run the numbers, you'll find that with current pricing it's possible to make a render node based on either an i7-980X or dual 12-core Opteron 6172's with reasonably similar amounts of rendering power per dollar. The Opteron box will cost a bit more than 50% more and render a bit less than 50% faster. If you want one render node, buy the one that fits your budget, but looking at the hypothetical comparison between two Opteron boxes and three i7 boxes, the two box solution has obvious advantages in saving space and electricity that will likely outweigh the three box solution's minor price/performance advantage.
I've provided the parts list for the Opteron solution. To build the i7 solution choose the High End but substitute the Opteron build's cheap video card, hard drive and peripherals, and the case and power supply from the Midrange system - with a single hard drive and low end video card, that case and power supply is enough to support the high end CPU.
But don't buy more than a couple of these. They quickly start to take up too much space and require too much maintenance. To add many nodes' worth of rendering power, you want a render farm. A farm is a collection of machines meant for rendering with, it's a must for complex animations and it should be done as a unit, based on racks, blades or other compact solutions and made for you by a company like Boxx. Get this if you want to add one or two render boxes, making individual nodes more practical than a farm.
Displays
A while back, one of my friends sent me a link to this article debunking pretty much every metric and slogan used in HDTV marketing. The market for LCD monitors is no less confusing, so concentrate on three things:
-Screen size.
-Resolution. This is not the problem it is in laptops, but what would you rather have - a 22" screen that's 1680x1050, or a 21.5" screen that's 1920x1080?
-IPS/PVA or TN. What you want here is an IPS or PVA panel, not a TN panel. Inexpensive monitors are TN panels, which have much worse color gamuts and viewing angles than better screens. A consumer LCD monitor likely isn't even processing and displaying color in 8 bits per channel, and if you move your desk chair 6 inches to the side the levels change.
So, here are a few options, all good quality IPS displays usable for professional graphics work:
-Eizo 24" CG243W. Let's get this out of the way first. This is a very expensive monitor with freakin' fantastic color quality. This monitor is appropriate for use in high end video, photography and publishing production environments. It is not necessary for most visualization are graphics work, but if you want the best that's available to you without costing more than your car, this is it. Pairs well with The Maxer.
-HP 22" ZR22W. This takes the spot that the Dell 2209WA used to occupy in my recommendations: a budget friendly model that beats a TN display and pairs well with the Intern and Budget systems. However, the newer HP model is a better panel, has a higher resolution and costs less. It's a winner at the lower end.
-HP 24" ZR24W and HP 30" ZR30W. As the names suggest, these are larger models from the same line as the ZR22W. All are great value options and significant steps up from consumer grade displays. You can size you ZR to your budget.
-In 27", I've previously recommended the Dell 27" U2711, but that's become hard to find. An excellent alternative is the NEC PA271w. With improved color reproduction and a resolution usually found in 30" displays, this Dell is a step up from the entry level IPS displays but more reasonable than the Eizo. Best with the High End or the Maxer.
-NEC 30" 3090WQXi. NEC's answer to the 30" Apple monitor. H-IPS panel for high end color and good viewing angles. A step up from the 30" HP, and a step up in price.
As usual, whatever you choose, calibrate it! We're not talking about one of those software functions where you look at the gray square and try to make it the same value as the lines, we're talking about a dedicated hardware calibration device. I use the Eye-One Display 2, but some users prefer the Color Munki, which can also be used with printers and projectors. I can't stress the importance of this enough - without calibration, you'll never be able to match your prints to your screen, whether you're using your system for 3D rendering, graphic design or photography.
If you're not familiar with my workstation recommendations, please read my updated explanation of methodology and explanation of computer parts. Even if you buy from a vendor like Dell, HP or Boxx, knowing about these issues will help you make an informed decision.
ATI's New GPUs
In the last couple of weeks, ATI began the Radeon 6000 series rollout with the Radeon HD 6850 and Radeon HD 6870. These cards are fantastic, but a bit misunderstood. The problem is, ATI's making some minor modifications to its naming scheme, so while you'd expect the 6850 to replace the 5850 and the 6870 to replace the 5870, the new cards are actually slower than the old ones with the similar names. The 6850 is actually an alternative to the 5830, and the 6870 should be considered a replacement for the 5850. What the new cards give you over their older (actual) counterparts is lower price, lower power consumption and heat production due to a simplified architecture, and a more efficient altialiaser. If you want a reasonable consumer level card for a budget system or for gaming, these cards rate a very strong buy.
The side effect of all this is that many other models have come down in price, notably the Geforce GTX 460 and GTX 470.
The Workstations
I'm going to try to write a bit less this time, since a lot of the usual spiel is in the update explanation of methodology.
Non-3D Workstations
The Intern
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
With a three-core AMD CPU, 4GB of RAM, a Radeon card with DirectX 11 and 1GB, and 64-bit Windows 7, this build will fit the needs of both your intern, your bookkeeper and your senior partner who doesn't use CAD. You can build something cheaper, but I don't recommend it.
The Photoshopper
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
This is a quiet, power efficient box that meets the needs of photographers, graphic designers and marketing staff.
The two RE3 (Raid Edition) hard drives have improved life expectancy over normal hard drives, necessary for reliable use in a RAID 0, which is the goal here. Use RAID to improve read/write speed on those large PSD files. Even with the RE3 drive, I would be remiss not to say that you really do need an external backup system. In an office environment, this can be as simple as a nightly backup of project files to the server.
Note the use of an i5 instead of an i7. Why? The i5-680 is a dual core with most of the same architecture as the i7, and a base clock of 3.6GHz that goes over 3.8GHz with Turbo Boost! How else are you going to get that without overclocking? (If you do overclock, by all means go to the i7-875k, upgrade the memory to DDR3-2000 and go nuts.) Don't worry, there's no shame in the i5 - I own two myself - and two cores is all you need for this sort of work. Creative Suite apps don't make efficient use of many cores or of Hyperthreading.
Whatever else you do, an X-Rite Eye-One Display 2 is indispensable, and a Wacom Intuos4 Tablet is a very good idea. Consider an IPS display from the Displays section below.
3D Workstations
The Budget
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
An interesting thing happened this month. The price on the AMD 1090T CPU went through the floor. I can't explain why this happened, but as of this writing Newegg is selling for less than the 1075T, which is slower. In these situations, I ask myself, what would Jeremy Clarkson do? At $230 you can't not use this CPU in this class of machine. So, for the time being anyway, the Budget gets the same CPU as the Midrange.
Choice of video card is more difficult. The Radeon 5750, Radeon 5770 and Geforce 450 are all viable options, and pretty close in price. I've gone with the Radeon 5770 this month because it's a bit quicker than than the others, though the Geforce is a bit cheaper and uses a bit less power, so you could really go either way and not be making a bad decision.
The Midrange (Regular Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
The Midrange features AMD's higher end 3.2GHz six-core CPU. (If you're an overclocker, this CPU has its multiplier unlocked, but you'll want faster RAM to take advantage of it.) The motherboard is a solid Asus choice, using AMD's best chipset, that can take two video cards at full speed as well as the latest peripherals (USB 3.0 and SATA3 6.0GB/s).
Since the regular edition of the Midrange doesn't need CUDA, the video card is a no brainer. For this money, for a video card to drive your 3D viewports and AutoCAD or Revit without doubling as a space heater for your office, the v5800 is the best thing. By not caring about CUDA, you get a lot of advantages in the viewport department. Serious Cinema4D users should also opt for this configuration, as the only way to make Cinebench run significantly faster is to step up to the much more expensive FirePro v8800.
There's a new hard drive in here, a Seagate "hybrid" drive which adds 4GB of flash memory storage to a normal 500GB hard drive. This will give you an improvement in booting and accessing your most used software. I didn't want to blow the budget here, but for speed, one thing you can do is substitute the hard drives used in the Photoshop workstation and make them a RAID 0, or replace the Seagate drive with one of the SSDs used in the Maxer or High End systems. The WD Green drive adds substantial storage with modest power, noise and heat numbers, and hard drives with conservative specs are generally more reliable than ones that run faster and hotter.
The High-End (Regular Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
Normally I recommend the FirePro v7800 in this class. Unfortunately that's out of stock for a while at Newegg, so this month I've included the Quadro 4000, which is more expensive and faster at some tasks - but you wouldn't be making a mistake if you got a v7800 from another source.
CPUs are a bit more constrained at this level. There's no real alternative to a 6-core i7, and there are only two of those. I'm sticking with the i7-980X for its speed advantage over the 970, which makes it a slightly better value in terms of rendering speed per overall system price, and the overclocking advantage of its unlocked multiplier, for those who are into that kind of thing.
Install your OS and software on the SSD and use the 1TB drive for your working files. For a bit more speed, order two of the 1TB drives and put them in a RAID 0. (Remember, RE drives are "RAID Edition" for a reason.)
The Maxer
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
Coming in just shy of the $8,000 target, this beast features dual 3.33GHz six-core CPUs, allowing it to render twice as quickly as the High End system. The chassis and motherboard are designed to go together, and for use with X5600 series CPUs.
As for video cards, this was a tough one. I'm sticking with the FirePro v8800 mainly because I don't see a compelling reason to switch and it's a better value than the Quadro 5000, but a FirePro v7800 2GB, Quadro 4000 2GB or Quadro 5000 2.5GB would be valid choices, depending on needs.
Oh, one more thing. These Xeons use triple-channel memory and each CPU has its own memory controller. When using two of these CPUs, there are six memory channels, so the RAM used must be matched DIMMs in multiples of six. This configuration uses a set of 12 DIMMs.
If this box can't handle your scene, you're doing something wrong. Estimated Cinebench rendering score: 17.
3D Workstations for CUDA Users
The Midrange (CUDA Rendering Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
In many respects this machine is similar to the regular Midrange. In fact, if you're not using Vray RT-GPU, iray or another CUDA rendering packae, this build is worse than the one above because the FirePro video card is better for driving viewports in 3D apps. But with this version, what you get is:
-A motherboard that supports up to three video cards
-Dual Geforce GTX 460 cards with 2GB RAM onboard
-More power!
The 2GB GTX 460 is a great option for running software like this. It's the most memory you can put on a card that's not a Quadro, at only $260 each. A single Quadro 4000 card would cost $780 and while it would likely outperform this configuration in viewport performance, it would not run a CUDA renderer nearly as well.
If you want even more power, two GTX 470 or GTX 480 cards can be used with this configuration; however, a 1000 watt power supply would be highly recommended. Three GTX 480 cards, the configuration Chaosgroup used in their demo? The cost/benefit is against you, but you can do it; a 1200 watt power supply is needed. The drawback is neither the 470 nor the 480 are available with 2GB.
The High-End (CUDA Rendering Edition)
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
Similar to Midrange version for CUDA rendering, this config is worse than the regular High-End if you don't use a CUDA rendering solution.
I seriously considered including four GTX 460 cards in this system, but in the end the principle that it's best to put the same amount of power in fewer CPUs translates well to GPUs and two GTX
[Edit: The next update will be mid-month, but now that the market for GTX 580's has simmered down slightly I've included them instead of the 480's.]
Render Nodes
The Render Node
click here to view/purchase the parts list on Newegg
If you run the numbers, you'll find that with current pricing it's possible to make a render node based on either an i7-980X or dual 12-core Opteron 6172's with reasonably similar amounts of rendering power per dollar. The Opteron box will cost a bit more than 50% more and render a bit less than 50% faster. If you want one render node, buy the one that fits your budget, but looking at the hypothetical comparison between two Opteron boxes and three i7 boxes, the two box solution has obvious advantages in saving space and electricity that will likely outweigh the three box solution's minor price/performance advantage.
I've provided the parts list for the Opteron solution. To build the i7 solution choose the High End but substitute the Opteron build's cheap video card, hard drive and peripherals, and the case and power supply from the Midrange system - with a single hard drive and low end video card, that case and power supply is enough to support the high end CPU.
But don't buy more than a couple of these. They quickly start to take up too much space and require too much maintenance. To add many nodes' worth of rendering power, you want a render farm. A farm is a collection of machines meant for rendering with, it's a must for complex animations and it should be done as a unit, based on racks, blades or other compact solutions and made for you by a company like Boxx. Get this if you want to add one or two render boxes, making individual nodes more practical than a farm.
Displays
A while back, one of my friends sent me a link to this article debunking pretty much every metric and slogan used in HDTV marketing. The market for LCD monitors is no less confusing, so concentrate on three things:
-Screen size.
-Resolution. This is not the problem it is in laptops, but what would you rather have - a 22" screen that's 1680x1050, or a 21.5" screen that's 1920x1080?
-IPS/PVA or TN. What you want here is an IPS or PVA panel, not a TN panel. Inexpensive monitors are TN panels, which have much worse color gamuts and viewing angles than better screens. A consumer LCD monitor likely isn't even processing and displaying color in 8 bits per channel, and if you move your desk chair 6 inches to the side the levels change.
So, here are a few options, all good quality IPS displays usable for professional graphics work:
-Eizo 24" CG243W. Let's get this out of the way first. This is a very expensive monitor with freakin' fantastic color quality. This monitor is appropriate for use in high end video, photography and publishing production environments. It is not necessary for most visualization are graphics work, but if you want the best that's available to you without costing more than your car, this is it. Pairs well with The Maxer.
-HP 22" ZR22W. This takes the spot that the Dell 2209WA used to occupy in my recommendations: a budget friendly model that beats a TN display and pairs well with the Intern and Budget systems. However, the newer HP model is a better panel, has a higher resolution and costs less. It's a winner at the lower end.
-HP 24" ZR24W and HP 30" ZR30W. As the names suggest, these are larger models from the same line as the ZR22W. All are great value options and significant steps up from consumer grade displays. You can size you ZR to your budget.
-In 27", I've previously recommended the Dell 27" U2711, but that's become hard to find. An excellent alternative is the NEC PA271w. With improved color reproduction and a resolution usually found in 30" displays, this Dell is a step up from the entry level IPS displays but more reasonable than the Eizo. Best with the High End or the Maxer.
-NEC 30" 3090WQXi. NEC's answer to the 30" Apple monitor. H-IPS panel for high end color and good viewing angles. A step up from the 30" HP, and a step up in price.
As usual, whatever you choose, calibrate it! We're not talking about one of those software functions where you look at the gray square and try to make it the same value as the lines, we're talking about a dedicated hardware calibration device. I use the Eye-One Display 2, but some users prefer the Color Munki, which can also be used with printers and projectors. I can't stress the importance of this enough - without calibration, you'll never be able to match your prints to your screen, whether you're using your system for 3D rendering, graphic design or photography.
Labels: 3D, 3ds max, 3dsmax, architectural, cinema4d, cpu, cuda, firegl, firepro, geforce, gpu, hardware, iray, nvidia, quadro, radeon, twinmotion, visualization, vray, workstations
posted by Andy Lynn at 10:00 AM
11 Comments:
I am currently kicking around tires for a new system in 3 or 4 months. I sent your Maxer list to Boxx for a quote on a comparable system. They came back with a "WS Dual Intel Xeon W5680 4.2Ghz Enhanced Performance Processors (Six-Core)" Everything else is the same as your Maxer except maybe a liquid cooling systemand a fancier case. Their quote was over 50% more than the itemized parts breakdown from Newegg. Boxx claims that their system beats the maxer by at least 25%. Any thoughts? Never built my own computer before, but I guess I may soon be learning how.
Good question. What Boxx has done is make an aggressively overclocked dual Xeon box, using the same CPUs you see here but overclocking them from 3.33GHz to 4.2GHz. Doing this creates excess heat, so they've used liquid cooling. I don't normally recommend all this because it's a fine line between maxing out your spec and breaking your computer, and it would be negligent for me to advise all the readers to try it at home (attention readers: if you try this at home it's at your own risk), but with Boxx providing tech support this seems like a sensible option.
Now since we're talking about the same hardware here, only overclocked, and with cooling handled correctly, the performance boost from the overclock is proportional to the GHz added. 4.2GHz is 25% faster than 3.33GHz, when doing CPU intensive operations.
The other advantage you get with Boxx is a higher level of tech support than most vendors provide. The downside is cost. You wouldn't be making a mistake buying from them, or building it yourself.
Thanks for the response and great information. I have not seen anything like this blog anywhere else on the net.
I am farily new to the site, and it was quite a nice surprise to find something so well targeted to a niche community.
Sounds like building my own system is going to give me much more for my money. I do feel a little hesitant to shell out almost $8K for a bunch of components that I could screw up with my lack of computer building experience.
Still, can't beat the savings. To be fair, the guys at Boxx have been great in my dealings with them through my company.
Thanks Andy for posting these recommendation. I could use some add'l guidance. I'm building a system for my wife who is an interior designer and uses photoshop, sketchup and autocad. She does contract work for residential and hospitality architects but my understanding is that it is 2D. Thinking of a system with 8-12Gb RAM.
CPU: If the prices were the same, would you recommend the AMD 1090T, i7 870 or 950?
GPU: If the prices were the same, would you recommend Radeon 5770, GeForce GTS 450 or GTX 460?
For what you recommend, would you go with the Lian Li or Antec Sonata case? And do I need add'l cooling?
Finally, I was thinking of using SSD for apps/OS. Would I be making a mistake by going with just 64-80 GB? If you thought that for this type of use a min was 120GB I'd probably go with a HDD for the timing being til prices come down.
I really appreciate it. Trying to buy this Thanksgiving weekend or cyber monday to take advantage of savings. Regards, Mike
Well, for this I wouldn't bother with a 6-core CPU or anything too fancy. I'd start with the Photoshopper but substitute the SSD drive from the High-End for one of the dual hard drives (keep one of those RE3 series hard drive for data storage that's more reliable than regular hard drives, but set up a backup system anyway) and for the video card, the Geforce 460 from the Home System, Black Friday Edition (my most recent article) is a very good value if you want an upgrade, though for an Autocad user... I'm divided on this. A FirePro v4800 would probably be just as good with the latest "performance plugin" from the web site, but quieter. You could go either way.
As for the CPU, the i5-680 I used, or the 670 or an i7-870 or an i5-750 or 760 - any of these would be good.
With those parts, the 500W Sonata case should be fine and you won't need extra cooling.
We're looking at purchasing some new workstations at my workplace and I've been comparing the offerings from both Dell and HP with your DIY specifications. Both companies use Xeon processors in their workstation class machines. Is there any reason why you have not specified a machine using these processors? These will be used mainly for Revit 2010, with an upgrade to 2011 in about a year, and occasional Revit rendering. By my understanding the i5-680 would have the best performance under these single thread tasks yet Autodesk is recommending a Quad Core Xeon @ 3.2GHz for their 2011 release.
Is a quad-core necessary if we will not be rendering very often? I've read elsewhere that Revit is only coded for multi-threaded save/close, rendering, wall join, and printing. What would be the Xeon equivalent to your Midrange spec?
Thanks, Eric
Eric, the whole Xeon thing is blown way out of proportion. Xeons have one and only one advantage over i7 9-series CPUs with similar GHz and number of cores: dual-CPU motherboards. (Those 3-series Xeons that can't be used on dual-CPU motherboards are basically pointless, marketing only.)
Dell and HP are of a mindset where anything sold for a 3D or CAD user must be a "workstation" and this means Xeons and Quadros and ECC RAM, but I can't honestly recommend such a configuration for your needs. You'd be just as well off, for less money, with an i7 or a fast i5, on an 1156 motherboard with 8GB or a 1366 board with 12GB, and either a FirePro (the v5800 at under $400 is one of the best values going) or a decent Geforce (the 460) or Radeon (6850, 6870, 5850 - something in the $200-300 range from the 5 or 6 line).
In most firms I've worked for we've ignored the "workstation" recommendations, when buying from one of these vendors, and instead bought "business class" computers with reasonably upgraded hardware.
Andy..... have you by chance been following the performance lag that's been documented on the six core Westmere processors you've recommended in the Maxer system?
I may be upgrading soon and a new colleague brought this to my attention.....
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/problem_with_windows_7_64b_3ds_max_2011_and_dual_intel_6_core_westmere_processors
So... Autodesk does something with Max2011 that breaks viewport performance when using dual-six Xeons and nvidia hardware, blames nvidia, who whine about ATI and they all get together and blame Microsoft? First I've heard of it. I'm not even going to comment.
Cheers for the posts,got a link form Jeff Mottle in CG Architect...very informative.One problem for us guys in europe though..NewEgg wont ship to us,got any suggestions for getting high spec machines europe side???
Hi Keith, thanks for the comment. I'm sorry but I don't know much about retailers outside the US - all I know is that NCIX is good in Canada and a lot of UK buyers like Scan. So all I can recommend is asking around, or asking in the Hardware board on CGArctitect.
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